Origional Transcript of Conversation

tedhaynie42: I feel that as an owner of a company you try to maximize your profits by all means necessary, so your telling me that it is wrong to,

tedhaynie42: give people jobs in india to make shoes but the people the company tries to hire in the US complain and are ungrateful.

tictacmaster: I'm not sure what you're doing

tictacmaster: I guess just giving yourself things to edit and cut from the conversation

tedhaynie42: Set aside the fact that they are being paid low wages. Nike isn;t putting a gun to their heads making them work they are walking in that factory on their own

tedhaynie42: Ok that was my soapbox what is your opinion buying coffee at starbucks provided you drink coffee?

tictacmaster: ok

tictacmaster: here I go

tictacmaster: While I do not believe that Nike is holding a gun to the workers heads, I do believe that the alternative is death itself. The common people have no other alternative, especially those born into a lower caste system

tictacmaster: I buy my shoes from a factory that is right across the street from the nike factory

tictacmaster: they pay union wages and the people have benefits

tictacmaster: Same shoe

tictacmaster: Same freaking shoe

tictacmaster: same price

tictacmaster: you can make the same product and still pay the workers decent wages and survive as a company

tictacmaster: Why purposly let people suffer and live poorly

tictacmaster: no reason

tedhaynie42: Yes, i would agree that the alternative may very well be death, so would we go so far as to say that nike is helping those people.

tedhaynie42: If nike were to pay them benefits and higher wages they would pull the factories back to america and cut the shipping costs

tictacmaster: Union wages there are different from here

tictacmaster: They don't make factories here because it costs money to ship anyway

tictacmaster: boat is cheaper than truck

tictacmaster: Free trade also cuts the cost because those shoes are sent all over the world

tictacmaster: they would have to pay taxes to export them out of the country

tedhaynie42: From nike's point of view why waste the time and money in india if your going to pay the same they would here to american workers

tictacmaster: It isn't the same

tictacmaster: They still pay less than what they would here, but the standard of living cost is higher here than there

tedhaynie42: If the workers work for what they are currently being paid and aren't complaining then why would nike raise pay

tictacmaster: They can't complain because the workers can be so easily replaced that if they decided to do so, it would mean death

tictacmaster: Nike has the right to make shoes in india, but at least pay the people enough money to live in something other than a tin shack

tedhaynie42: Hey i currently have a man from india on the phone right now and he says that a man or women in india is grateful for they jobs

tedhaynie42: at least they have money to feed themselves

tictacmaster: Why should they not enjoy a higher standard of living? Why should they be content to just have enough to eat?

tictacmaster: Nike is run by americans who enjoy champagne and eat steak every night

tictacmaster: They, being people on this earth, deserve more than just to feed themselves the shitty rice they eat

tedhaynie42: indians doent eat beef

tictacmaster: It was merely a turn of phraise

tictacmaster: the Indian equivilant of beef

tedhaynie42: hindu religion

tictacmaster: I know

tictacmaster: don't nickle and dime me

tedhaynie42: just kidding

tictacmaster: oh

tictacmaster: right

tictacmaster: my point is that Nike makes more money than they know what to do with

tictacmaster: they have enough to increase the standard of living that their employees that make them all this money

tictacmaster: Like I said, the poeple I buy my shoes from are doing it now

tedhaynie42: Have you been to india?

tictacmaster: No

tedhaynie42: what shoe company

tictacmaster: "No Sweat Apparal

tictacmaster: check out the website

tictacmaster: they freely disclose all information about their practice

tedhaynie42: ok i will, that could helpful, hey hold on

tictacmaster: kk

tictacmaster: http://www.nosweatapparel.com/

tictacmaster: A question of the Golden Rule comes to mind. We are content to let the factory workers live and work in horrid, painful, and down right dirty conditions. Would we want to take their place? Would we want to live like them? Send our children to work and live like them? I know that the answer is No. If you said yes you'd be a liar.

tictacmaster: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

tictacmaster: How're ya doin there, Ted?

tictacmaster: You ok?

tictacmaster: Been silent for quite a while

tictacmaster: http://www.nosweatapparel.com/

tictacmaster: here is the web address again

tictacmaster: I made a mistake. The factory across the street from the Nike factory is actually in indonesia

tictacmaster: same little "Ind" in the beginning

tedhaynie42: ok I;m back

tictacmaster: what did you find?

tedhaynie42: oh indonesia yes close

tictacmaster: did you read the sources page?

tictacmaster: That gives you the locations of all their factories and what kind of wages people make

tictacmaster: some here

tictacmaster: some in indonesia

tictacmaster: some in mexico

tictacmaster: people that work there are also greatful for their jobs

tedhaynie42: In refards to the golden rule comments. if i was starving and had no money for food for my family you can bet that I would be grateful and eager to work for nike no matter what the pay

tedhaynie42: the horrid conditions you were talking about refer to what in the factories

tictacmaster: though you'd be grateful, you'd still deserve better

tictacmaster: The term "Sweat Shop" isn't just a clever word choice.

tedhaynie42: Well 99%percent of the buildings in india do not have central air let alone factories.

tictacmaster: Those people work in small, cramped, poorly lit conditions, operating machinery with no fans to blow them or filter out air

tictacmaster: Just because they don't have them

tictacmaster: doesn't mean they couldn't put them in

tedhaynie42: It would be hot sitting at home with out a job with only your worries to keep you company

tictacmaster: Is it that there is disbelief that the working conditions are shit?

tedhaynie42: So you would say that no sweat app has ac for their workeres

tictacmaster: I'll ask

tedhaynie42: Sure its hot they sweat its freaking india

tictacmaster: yeah, but like I was saying. Install an air conditioner

tictacmaster: I could go to home depot and buy one for 70 bucks

tedhaynie42: Sure sure i agree ac would be great but do you see roofers in florida getting ac

tictacmaster: Are they paid almost nothing?

tictacmaster: They are paid big bucks to go up there

tictacmaster: If they were paid shit then I would develope some sort of air conditioning suit

tedhaynie42: no no your right.

tedhaynie42: So lets write nike and ask then to install ac in the facotries in india

tictacmaster: The air conditioning is beside the point

tictacmaster: I just sent them the question

tictacmaster: about the ac in factories here

tictacmaster: I'll post on the wiki when I get a response

tictacmaster: full text response

tedhaynie42: ok hey i found something regarding nikes factories in china

tictacmaster: ok

tedhaynie42: it from the national labor committee

tedhaynie42: http://www.nlcnet.org/campaigns/archive/report00/NKsewon.shtml

tedhaynie42: this site has some great info

tictacmaster: I'll say

tedhaynie42: i favors your argument of course

tictacmaster: still

tictacmaster: it has good information

tedhaynie42: all instead of i

tictacmaster: I don't think that it is "favoring" anything though

tictacmaster: I think it is just telling us what is going on

tictacmaster: the favoring is up to the eye of the beholder

tictacmaster: is all of our stuff due tonight before midnight?

tedhaynie42: the homepage is great too probably will lead to more info around the world

tedhaynie42: very eye opening

tictacmaster: what about due dates, is it tonight?

tictacmaster: I know

tictacmaster: I'm sorry to go off topic

tictacmaster: kind of an emergency

tictacmaster: I hope I have tomorrow

tedhaynie42: ya everything is due by midnight

tictacmaster: crap

tedhaynie42: so we can wrap this up

tictacmaster: yeah

tictacmaster: uh

tictacmaster: *hug*

tedhaynie42: good convo though

tictacmaster: yeah

tedhaynie42: see ya tom

tictacmaster: Thanks for this website

tictacmaster: see you tomorrow

tedhaynie42: peace

tictacmaster: peace

Here is a third link http://www.rawganique.com/

I don't know maybe everyone will view me as an instigator after this, but I feel like it needs to be said. We had this conversation about Nike in my Management class the other night. Here's what I want to know. Nike comes in and occupies a factory, hires 5,000 people and pays them 35 cents an hour.. somebody's head is going to roll. Now, what if, AFTER doing the research, it is found that.. wait a second, the standard wage is 10 cents an hour? That's over TRIPLE the norm. No, it's not a perfect concept, but what would you have them do? Pull out? Leave these thousands of people jobless? Come in and pay these people 7 dollars an hour? Do you KNOW what that ratio is? Can you honestly tell me that that would be good for the country? If 5,000 people, who have never even imagined that wealth were suddenly making that much money? It'd be mass chaos. Anarchy. You can't do that. The risk outweighs the benefit. That's not in the best interest of that country. It'd be a complete zoo. People would be killing people to work at the Nike factory. You may think that's funny, or ridiculous.. but it's not. Think about the impact of that.. what something like that could do. The repercussions.

All I'm saying is, innovation without follow-through is just whining.

-Danielle